The Tech Blog

Perl: Love it, or hate it, but don’t ignore it.

Call me a curmudgeon (and many do), but I just can’t understand why intelligent folks make the choice to completely ignore Perl. I can understand if you don’t want to use it yourself — that’s all cool — but I wish folks would at least give it the nod it deserves.

Case in point: I was reading Simon Wilson’s excellent blog post about Node.js — an "evented I/O for V8 javascript” and was surprised that he only referenced Twisted (Python) and EventMachine (Ruby) when talking about non-blocking event-driven frameworks.

Why no mention of Perl? In reading about Node.js, it looks like one of the critical pieces of Node.js — libev — was co-authored by Marc Lehmann, a rather prolific CPAN contributor. Mark also appears to be the author of AnyEvent, one of Perl’s own even-driven frameworks. It’s not like PSGI and Plack and POE haven’t been getting some good attention lately. And even the slideshow listed at the end of Simon’s post mentions AnyEvent as an alternate event-driven option.

So what happened?

As most Perlers have probably experienced, this is not an isolated event. Virtually every discussion of Web frameworks — Ruby on Rails, Django on Python, Symphony on PHP — manage to avoid any mention of Catalyst, Jifty, or the Mojo Web Framework.

Given Catalyst’s lineage — fork of a Perl MVC framework called Maypole — I find it a bit strange that it’s so often left out of the picture. (Even more strange when one considers that Catalyst is technically older that Ruby on Rails — or so I’ve read.)

So.. Why do intelligent programmers so often leave Perl out of picture when talking about new approaches? Is it a conspiracy? Just plain oversight? Or the legend of "Perl is dead" rearing it’s head again?

I don’t have an answer, but I wish I did. (Though, I’d probably start my investigation with the lackluster attention that O’Reilly gives to Perl.com.)

There’s lots of activity around Perl. Just check out StackOverflow or commandlinefu.com. Supposedly Perl Web searches are on the rise, and the Twitterverse is all a-flutter with everything Perl, and Perl.org got a design refresh (hats off to those involved).

As the old saying goes: Love me, or hate me, just don’t ingore me. If people want to hate on Perl, so be it. But I propose that it would benefit the Perl community to ensure that Perl is not ingored.

So the next question is: How do we raise the volume even higher?


 |  See posts tagged with:  Information Technology  ironman  IT  perl  perlceptions  technology  Web


Comments

It's Perl the language
It isn't CPAN. It isn't the community. The Perl language itself is the problem. Perl is an abomination of a language so offensive to many people that they actively try hard to forget that they have ever heard of it, had to write code in it, or worse had to read code written in it.

Ted Henry on 11/26/2009 | view this user's profile

Oh, the horror
What Ted said - every contractor I've met in the last few years is content to leave Perl off the resume just so that they won't have to deal with it ever again.

A Perl person must have written the code for this website - the registration process needs a bit of love. Inline validation, real-time validation, remembering the password if there was an error - all would help improve usability.

mr.mike on 11/26/2009 | view this user's profile

Not language specific
"A Perl person must have written the code for this website - the registration process needs a bit of love. Inline validation, real-time validation, remembering the password if there was an error - all would help improve usability."

The registration and commenting process could use some love, agreed. However, that's not a Perl-specific challenge. ;-)

phillip_at_newint on 11/27/2009 | view this user's profile

Sigh...
Ted, Ted, Ted... As Metallica would say, "arrogance and ignorance go hand-in-hand."

account on 11/27/2009 | view this user's profile

Ted, Ted, Ted... As Metallica would say, "arrogance and ignorance go hand-in-hand."

No, actually he's completely correct. For a number of years I made a living as a perl developer and I can only agree with Ted; it really is an abomination of a language. That's it plain and simple. After I'd had enough of the years of madness I decided to learn another language (python before settling with ruby) and *actively* expunge all knowledge of perl.

You ask the question why does no one mention it surely the answer speaks for itself you just appear too prejudiced, dogmatic <insert adjective of your choice> to see it. Oh and don't blame one publisher for the sad, and hopefully soon to be dead, language.

Might I suggest that try another language and then you might see why no one mentions perl. And maybe like the rest of us you will realise that it is pure evil.

rgh on 11/27/2009 | view this user's profile

And I've been using Perl professionally, as my main language of choice at work and for private projects, since 1998. And I'm still using it. Why? Because I like it. The syntax is ideal. It fits my way of thinking. Perl is my natural choice of code.
If you don't like it fine. But maybe I don't like your language of choice either. But if that's the case I'm not knocking your decision for using it.
Language wars get you nowhere, other than a reputation as a troll.

AndyB on 11/27/2009 | view this user's profile

stats
Considering stats, usage of Perl is raising. I wouldn't call this ignoring. Common problem of Perl is too much FUD. Without FUD, usage would be raising more rapidly.

http://alexchorny.livejournal.com/ on 11/27/2009 | view this user's profile

So much FUD it hurts
"Considering stats, usage of Perl is raising. I wouldn't call this ignoring. Common problem of Perl is too much FUD. Without FUD, usage would be raising more rapidly."

I tend to agree, if the comments here are any indication of how much folks who don't like, or use, Perl have to say about it. Crazy stuff.

phillip_at_newint on 11/27/2009 | view this user's profile

Just a quick note to thank Simon Wilson for his response and point folks to the rather enjoyably humorous conversation over at Hacker News.

phillip_at_newint on 11/27/2009 | view this user's profile

I like using perl
I would just like to add my voice to the pro-Perl camp. I've been using the language for a few years now and I've found it to have a number of great features and I really enjoy using it. In the wrong hands, a program in any language can look like an abomination. I wonder how many people who disparage the language have any actual experience with it.

hudson on 11/27/2009 | view this user's profile

:-)
"just don't ingore me"

That sounds bloody. I will comply to not.

asjo on 11/27/2009 | view this user's profile

I've used perl for years and like the language. I've switched for several reasons. Some of the reasons I think perl gets less attention:

1. Rails as a web application framework makes a lot of decisions for you so you can get right to your app. Most of the perl frameworks that I've looked at give too much flexibility. This gives Ruby as a language much more attention as it makes it easier for new developers to get started.

2. I don't know what happened to all the high profile perl developers, maybe they spend less time on perl or are busy working away on perl 6, but the amount of new information that comes out for perl, stories of usage on big sites or high profile clients has definitely fallen off.

3. The redevelopment of the language from perl 5 to perl 6 is taking forever. I know it is a complex undertaking, but I think it has driven people to other languages they can use now with the features they want already available to them.

4. As a business owner, it is simply easier to find php developers for web development. They may all not be as good developers as a seasoned perl developer (this is not to say some aren't better), but they can get the job done.

I would like to see a resurgence of the perl community, but I think they need to address some of these points (and others) if they are going to make it happen. I also think a strong marketing effort with someone like Damian Conway leading the effort would help.

Steve Walker on 11/28/2009 | view this user's profile

Perl6
>3. The redevelopment of the language from perl 5 to perl 6 is taking >forever. I know it is a complex undertaking, but I think it has driven >people to other languages they can use now with the features they want >already available to them.

The Perl5 -> Perl6 dev cycle is a bit of a joke at this point. It's as bad as Enlightenment being stuck at R16 for almost 10 years. I think they've put it in a warehouse somewhere next to the Ark of the Covenant.

NBW2009 on 11/28/2009 | view this user's profile

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